#some of y'all do not understand some mentally ill and disordered ppl

[doors-worstenemy]

i love gif sets on tumblr until that stupid bottom gif where they have normal dni shit listed then the most outrageous uneducated weirdest most biased and problematic take you've ever seen attached to a dancing squid

[icarustypicalfall]

ALRIGHT LISTEN

this is just an opinion no need to get in my inbox and hate :)

i GENUINELY wonder if my fics are not good enough, or it's just because i am writing about the "side charachters" and not ghost or könig..

i mean ofc everyone have tastes but the way pepole act on socials and keep out charachters like Rudy and Alejandro makes me wonder if this is a preference or r*cism.

(before you say it, i am not making drama and we can't keep turning around the pot forever)

(also Horangi and Gaz are extremely underrated, fortunately ppl started to include them back after the chaos of September. i understand some people may not like a character or not write for him because they don't want to mess it up. but leaving him out like MANY did isn't okay.)

I am not blaming anyone but genuinely wondering why some charachters get all the attention while we can berly find content for any other character, who are really interesting as well and deserve appreciation.

**

I am not against any headcanon, sticking with the canon events is fine.

y'all need to let people do what they love, even if you don't like it, someone enjoys it. And the purpose of a fandom is to recreate and make new stuff out of the actual product.

Although, what is extremely wrong is oversexualizing the charachters, making from them some mentally ill monsters and manicas. You should educate yourself on disorders and similar stuff before writing it, you may think it's ok, but in reality love, you are making a huge mistake.

(I've seen some stuff that was extremely messed up and the people who wrote that really need to touch some grass and urgent therapy. Some stuff shouldn't be posted at all..)

Also, the face models are actual people.. and the comment section under their posts makes me sick.. some of y'all took the digital footprint for granted..

remember they can read, or see anything you'll say. they have family, friends seeing what y'all say about them..

imagine seeing someone say that stuff about your friend or parent..

Also Samuel Roukin and every other actor are beautiful, they are humans and don't have to be a flawless super model.(he is in fact very handsome 🤭)

Look in the mirror darling and remember that the person you are hating on is a human just like you and have feelings.

AS A CONCLUSION

- you can like whoever you want i am not judging anyone and i am not forcing you to like any character 🤦🏻‍♀️

can't believe i had to add this ppl seriously need to touch grass

-give other characters attention

-dont hate on others for having different opinions

-the face models are humans

-there is some point where you should ask yourself if what you wrote is okay

-its könig not konig

-graves is an antogonist and was supposed to be evil

- all of the charachters did something wrong at some point, this is war and not roses and flowers

this is my opinion and idc i wanted to rant cuz i had enough

masterlist

[gncrevan]

i decided not to engage & instead block op for my own sanity, but this is still a bad fucking take.

1. i actually know what person they are referring to and i have seen the horrible bullying and ableism with which they were treated on tiktok, so i literally don't care if they're fake or not, it was bad, they're a teenager and deserve to be defended from adults and peers leading a harassment campaign.

2. ppl online often exaggerate or confabulate, that doesn't mean they don't have a condition. there is a fucking incentive for ppl to play up or even lie about their symptoms online due to how social media works. that doesn't mean they don't still have a disorder, you don't know them personally, you're not their doctor. you can't dx someone over the internet.

3. fakeclaiming always harms disabled & mentally ill ppl. faking a disorder or disability is very rare, but almost every disabled person who talks about their condition gets accused of it. hell, especially when it's about DID. all the DID youtubers i know of have been accused of faking. i haven't met a single disabled person who hasn't been accused of faking or at least exaggerating their symptoms. compiling "masterdocs" to "prove" that someone is faking feeds into harmful ableist stereotypes, plus it's just plain weird and creepy. why are y'all so fucking obsessed with surveillance and online vigilantism, don't you have any hobbies??

4. everybody deserves to be treated with empathy and respect, especially when they're not harming anyone but themselves. it's one thing to "bully" a nazi off a platform (it's not real bullying lol i just don't know what word to use), that's just basic community safety, but a teenager who's only being cringe and maybe perpetuating some comparably harmless misinfo? what the absolute fuck. also, idk, if someone tells you they have a disorder, you don't have to believe them, but it costs exactly zero dollars to leave them alone if you don't. and if your argument is "they're clearly trolling", ok, all the more reason to leave them the fuck alone.

5. yeah, a lot of ppl don't understand psychosis, or delusions, or factitious disorder. and some use these terms incorrectly. doesn't change the fact that it's the kind, morally correct, and statistically supported thing to engage with someone who claims to have a disorder on the assumption that they do have a disorder, whether this one or a different one. if someone claims to have EHS, i know that they don't because it's pseudoscientific nonsense, but that doesn't mean they don't have an illness they are suffering from, and assuming they're a faker or a hypochondriac literally doesn't help anyone. it's frankly childish to call those who attempt to engage in good faith "dumb as fuck" just cause you don't want to have empathy with someone you have deemed a bad person.

[ablednt]

aren’t u that blog that constantly promotes self dx and bashes professional dx? like self dx is fine but it’s a last resort for people who can’t access prof dx.

I don't bash prof dx, first off. I fully understand and respect people who needed one for any reason.

However self diagnosis should never be treated like a backup for if you can't get a prof dx and here is why:

(Disclaimer: exact details vary by country making this not fully accurate in every country also I am not saying that treatment is bad or that therapists are inherently bad I am currently trying to seek therapy but any good therapist will treat you without a diagnosis if they are aware of the legal consequences of one)

You can and likely will lose your rights for your diagnoses. It's different by country but in the US if your diagnosed with things like DID, Autism, and probs a lot more you won't be allowed to go on HRT if you're trans. You may have your children taken away if you have any, you may be prevented from donating or receiving blood or organs, if you have abusive family members they may be able to put you under a conservatorship (what happened to Britney Spears) etc.

Literally the vast majority of psychologists do not study these disorders! Do you know what they do when they prof dx? THE SAME SHIT PPL WHO SELF DX DO. The dx process is exactly the same but with a professional dx you have someone who doesn't have that thing, who has no actual first hand experiences, listening to you talk about that thing and telling you whether or not they think you have it with literally no input from the community.

By saying every one has to try to be prof dxed before they're allowed to self dx you're saying that people of color should put up with blatant racism because there's so many documented biases.

Also the criteria that therapists use to diagnose is found in the dsm5, have you read it? I have, it says that autistic people cannot take care of themselves that they're prone to self harm bc of their autism and that they should have their needs ignored it uses all the labels that autistic people ask it doesn't. It says that even if an adult fits all the criteria of ADHD that if their parents arent available to say "yeah they sucked at school and were annoying" that you shouldn't diagnose them. The criteria for personality disorders, schizophrenia, and similar are all intentionally vague and/or exclusionary to one highly stereotyped set of symptoms. They literally admitted to trying to make the criteria for DID as specific and exclusive as possible because they wanted to remove it entirely because they believed people dxed with MPD before DID was coined did not deserve treatment.

The field of psychology started historically to abuse people, they were thrown into asylums and literally beaten and subjected to horrible conditions for any presumed mental illness. This actually has not changed very much at all, even in the last century a psychiatrist was caught physically abusing his patients and using the theory he made on DID to force them to keep coming to him for therapy. Psyche wards are notorious for mistreating patients there in every aspect and I've had psyche students tell me they believe that psychologists should have the right to physically harm patients. Children professionally dxed with autism are often physically harmed at school by their teachers, physical restraint is still used and it's killed multiple autistic students.

Children and teens in abusive homes have ableist parents often who may get violent or worsen the abuse or use a dx against them legally to trap them at home. Do you give them a pass for self dx? Except here's the thing you literally don't know who's being abused and who isn't and asking ppl that is really fucked up so you should be accepting all self dx to create a welcoming and safe space for them.

Physciatrists actually misdiagnose more than people mis-self-diagnose. Which isn't a reflection on the psychiatrist as much as the fact that people know their own experiences but they very often can't explain them. An example before I met someone who had OSDD1 and would explain it to me from first hand perspective no one would have ever suspected I had a dissociative disorder and was plural Because the only words I had for my experiences were "everything before a certain date literally wasn't me idk I'm just not the same person I was" "I'm a really good writer because I talk to characters in my head all day and they respond to things even when I'm not trying to think about them and they're real to me somehow idk lol" none of that sounds like DID but I was actually describing memory gaps from switches, internal communication and presence of fictives, etc. The best guest anyone had was depression and an overactive imagination. Self dxing is literally more accurate and accessible because people can look at the community and see the disorder explained from first hand experience.

Historically (but it's still happening in some cases) therapists would literally refuse treatment to anyone who talked to other people with their diagnosis. The case I'm thinking of is people with MPD (the dx that came before DID replaced it) would be refused therapy if they spoke to anyone else with MPD outside of therapy and even forbade them from going to support groups for survivors of incestual abuse because those groups advocated for the rights of people with MPD. To this day therapists often disrespect any and all ND/mentally ill communities because we happen to know our own literal lived experiences better than them.

Oh and prof dxes are often used against people legally so if anyone is in a minority group often targeted by police that potentially puts them in even more danger if they're arrested. Least we forget there's an entire field of study dedicated to criminalizing mental illness.

This isnt even half the reasons but I'm running out of spoons (I can source most of these things but I don't have the spoons so if anyone needs a source just ask)

I'm a firm believer that the need for prof dx not be pushed on everyone when it can have permanent and negative consequences and is no better than a self dx. If someone needs a diagnosis for access to medications, for financial support, or for any other legal reason then it very well may be worth the risk but they need to have the right to understand the consequences and make that decision. Imo it's professional dxes that should be not a last resort perse but it shouldn't even remotely be your first steps, your first steps are find the community and hear their actual lived experiences bc that will be so much clearer than anything a therapist who doesn't experience that thing can explain.

Also why do you care if people self dx? Why does their not having an Official Document saying they have their disorder bother you? I think it's deeply unsettling that you think everyone in the entire world needs YOUR approval to have something.

Jsyk the sentiment that self dx is lesser than prof dx is fostered by our capitalist nt society that's benefiting off of our abuse and systematic oppression so like you're literally helping us stay oppressed with this rhetoric.

If y'all really want to be progressive and anti-capitalist like most of this site does (and should) then that goes for disability justice too. Stop helping our own communities abuse and accept that not everyone has the luxury you apparently had to never be affected by your diagnosis ever.

[alexiaugustin]

Since I seem to be in a really positive mood today and even though this show clearly doesn't deserve this post here's my list of favorite skam france s6 clips:

Samedi 07:52 The day after ep1: I really really loved the first clip of the season a lot more than the trailer and I think that it was such a great introduction to Lola's pov. We really saw the world through her eyes in such a special way in that moment n I loved all the hints to the plot (same sex couple walking down the street and being viewed as completely normal> w|w storyline with no internalized homophobia; the raccon tag > foreshadowing for otteli and urbex plot; lola photographing broken things > insight into lola's feelings) The cinematography and use of pov was a masterpiece in this one.

Lundi 7:43 Tiff ep1: This one is just here for the grew being the most supportive and loving friend group, skipping classes together to take care of Daphné and that group hug <33 need I say more?? No. Every clip with the grew is gonna be on this list because the little screen time they had this season needs to be honoured. I'm sorry that they did you so dirty babes:((

Mercredi 13:03 Fuck the planet ep1: my absolute favorite mayla clip this season!! one of my absolute favorite clips in general!! I still remember the day when they dropped that clip and I got so excited for this season again. Maya being a climate activist and such a warm and lovely person I immediately fell in love with her. Maya looking at Lola as if she's a princess walking down the stairs to a ball in some fairy tale. Maya not letting Lola's cold remarks throw her off n replying with equal sass instead, Maya's iconic coming out line and Lola smiling for the first time all season!! That clip was really off the charts

Vendredi 16:43 Someone exceptional ep1: This is my absolute favorite clip of the whole season and the amount of times I've rewatched this is actually unhealthy. Something just clicked and for the first time I felt really connected with Lola and felt and understood her pain (probs to Flavie she was amazing here) I loved the lil details abt this clip: Lucas playing the piano, le grew all hugging Daphné, Daphné's speech and break down (lula was amazing here too I really really felt connected to Daphné in that moment), Eliott and Lola meeting for the first time (their best clip this season, gosh the potential they had to actually develop such a cool and beautiful sibling relationship with them and then they did.... whatever the rest of their storyline was), Lola trying so hard to read Daphné's speech and then holding her own instead because she so desperately needs to get this off her chest and make ppl understand her and last but not least the cinematic shots of her running out of the church and breaking down. Truly my favorite clip.

Mercredi 12:56 You don't know me ep2: my second favorite mayla clip and hell did I love their dynamic and chemistry in this one. The community service clips were so so special and gave them such unique vibes I'm so sad that the rest of their storyline really couldn't live up to that because the beginning really was breathtaking and I was so here for their storyline and really believed that I would get the w|w rep I deserve this season. Rip

Jeudi 19:33 Sorry ep2: Daphné and Lola finally warming up to eachother, both of them apologizing, Lola saying that she can make dinner and they can watch one of Daphné's favorite tv shows together. Baby steps. Also Daphné grieving and smelling her mother's shirt to find comfort. Such an important clip!!

Vendredi 22:22 Otteli ep2: Again the opening shots and cinematography of this clip!! Lola meeting la mif for the first time and I was completely buying their found family dynamic from the start, maya and lola being 👀 the entire time and last but not least Eliott being introduced as urbex legend n royalty,, the wasted potential of that storyline tho...

Samedi 6:43 An awesome party ep3: again maya's and lola's chemistry in this one and their first real and deep conversation, maya opening up about her parents and how she found a home and family in la mif, their smiles and laughs and lola replying to Daphné's text messages because that's growth baby!

Lundi 7:53 The slap ep3: again just here for le grew, the way they all pulled daphné in for a group hug I'm cryinnn. Also Lucas telling the people who were gossiping abt Lola to turn around and mind their own business, dare I say iconic. the way we could have had it all this season and then skamfr decided to make them enemies. Hate it here

Samedi 13:18 Hangover ep4: this clip being a parallel to the beginning of ep2, we all believed that Lola went out and slept with another stranger and would feel lost and overwhelmed again and then! we and she found out that she's at maya's n instead of being lost again she completely openes up to Maya abt her life and Maya just holds her and Lola clings onto her as if her life depends on it and finds comfort in Maya. Still crying about this one

Mardi 21:43 You want to talk about it? ep4: I would be lying if I didn't tell you that I've rewatched this clip countless of times simply because seeing Eliott so happy and excited at his workplace has me feeling some type of way. I liked his and Lola's general dynamic in this one my main problem is just that it was so damn underdeveloped and came out of nowhere. Skam france you're a transmedia show text messages would have really helped you bby!!

Samedi 14:23 Luquette ep5: ohh out of all the clips with Eliott in it this one's definitely my favorite (and also one of the only ones I liked) both Eliott and Lola getting to speak for themself abt their mental health, seeing Eliott's development going from being ashamed and hiding his mental illness to now being so open about it and giving others advice, them talking about Eliott's Lucas and Lola's Luquette (🥺) Eliott being ready to run from Daphné with Lola and Lola saying that she's gonna take responsibility and Eliott looking like a proud big brother > the only clip with sibling vibes of them this season

Samedi 17:36 Just a girl ep5: Daphné and Lola reconciling, Daphné wanting to buy Lola picture frames and not letting that go even tho they have so little money and she sorts other stuff out instead. Please their sister bond this season has my heart. And also Maya and Lola at that supermarket gay panic energy at its finest. I loved that clip and that even after what happened last Friday Maya is still such a warm and loving person in that clip. Ugh why did they had to ruin her character later that season??☹

Mercredi 18:49 I miss you ep5: in case y'all are wondering if I'm just gonna put every single mayla clip on that list- don't worry this one is gonna be the last in a while. Anyway back to the good old days lamifex hanging all out together and being literal children together <33 mayla finally getting to talk and Maya explaining herself, showing Lola her scars and telling her that she misses her when she's not around. My heart combusted watching that clip

Lundi 12:35 We are even ep6: le grew studying together!! especially lucas and imane!!!! screaming. the only time we ever got to see them preparing for the bac but at least we have this one clip. Basile and Lola sibling dynamic and also the clip confirming that Daphné indeed has an eating disorder and Lola beginning to be really worried about her

Mercredi 18:27 I don't know what you're looking for ep6: Lola finding out about Daphné's eating disorder and finding proof in her room, Daphné freaking out and the last shots of her trying so hard not to fall apart, lula's acting in this scene!! It was all so realistic it truly is one of the top ten clips too

Jeudi 21:53 It won't always work ep6: Daphné and Lola talking and Lola opening up abt her addiction problems and telling Daphné that she can really really understand her and that both of them can get better again, Lola and Daphné being completely at peace and cuddling on the couch and watching tv together. One of my favorite clips of them this season I just love their sister bond so much

Mercredi 16:52 The break up ep7: both Lula's and Paul's acting was incredibly I was 100% buying that break up, Basile desperately wanting to help Daphné but not really knowing how, Daphné throwing him out and immediately having a break down, feeling so helpless and lost :'(( also Lola seeing her sister breaking down and not knowing how to help her either broke my heart. Protect the Lecomte sisters at all costs

Dimanche 18:32 Freesias ep8: for me this one was the true full cycle moment this season. The Lecomte family visiting their mum on mother's day, Lola revealing that she does know her favorite flowers and that her mum used to sent them to her along with letters she never read, Lola saying that if she could she might read them now but it's too late for that and in some kind of way she was making peace with her mum and everything that happened between them. Daphné taking the umbrella so Thierry can pull Lola close and them just standing in the rain and healing n growing as a family!! This clip was so emotional and important and skamfr had the audacity to destroy all that development with Thierry for useless drama. I'm endlessly bitter

Mardi 18:03 Vital prognosis ep8: just daphné, basile, lola and maya being a happy lil family together. This clip was so peaceful and beautiful to watch every time ep9 ruined my mood I went back to this clip to cheer myself up again. Really wish we could have seen more of them together and maya and lola as a couple

Vendredi 23:04 Emergency ep10: okay so I really didn't like that skamfr switched povs to build up suspense and was actually just triggering for many of us. But I just wanna say Lula's acting!!! The way she said "But how do you know we're going to find her, Lucas? Putain! She has never left a note before this is the first time for all we know" truly her acting!! I rewatched that clip so many times for that line alone (until I realized that the storyline was actually really triggering for me so I haven't watched the clip ever since but still)

Samedi 01:06 Sisters ep10: still hate the storyline and that it was done in episode 10 but I'm sooo glad that Daphné went to talk to Lola alone, that Daphné tells her that she's always loved her and basically everything they said in that clip!! Really moving and emotional one of the only clips that really made me cry this season. Again I live for Flavie's and Lula's acting

Mercredi 16:38 Beep beep beep ep10: even tho the mayla storyline was in context of the season really lacking depth at this point, watching this clip ignoring the context really was a cultural reset. One thing I love abt skam france is just that they let lgbt people live their lives without having homophobia being thrown at them left and right so kissing your gf in the middle of the supermarket like that might not be realistic but I don't care!!!!! let the gays live their life and kiss in the supermarket!!! thanks!! also that song especially the lyrics "darling I won't let you go" thoughts are being thunk💌

And yeah basically that's it. As yall may notice I loved the first half of the season way more than the second half and I feel like there was so much wasted potential and important storylines left unaddressed because they wanted to throw in more drama....

[none-gender-left-man]

Amazing how utterly out of touch some anti endos are in the notes.

Y'all start out with "you have to have DID/OSDD to be a system" and lemme tell you that in doing so you're ALREADY excluding DDNOS, which anti endos love to forget exists on a regular basis.

I also can't understand how ppl in the notes can grasp that "endos may have MADD or Schizospec disorders" but then turn around and still treat them like they're "stealing" when they're literally just a different form of mentally ill.

Punishing ppl if they're delusional or something adjacent isn't okay??? You fucking assholes?? Coaching ppl into thinking they have hidden trauma and risking them developing false memories or psychosis because you've decided they MUST have amnesia??? That's ABUSIVE. That is psychological abuse.

Hate to tell y'all but even if endos are "delusional and attention seeking"....that's neurodivergent. They're still neurodivergent. And punishing them for it? That's ableism, babes. No matter how much you dress it as self advocacy.

There have always been grey areas in plurality due to the way many disorders and conditions can overlap. Sorry y'all want everything in neat clean boxes but real life and psychological qualia isn't so simple.

- a DDNOS mixed origin system with C-PTSD, MADD, and other neurodivergent conditions

The Ableism Inherent in the Sysmed

So we've been seeing this recurrent claim pop up, that endogenic systems are ableist because of their claims that they experience plurality without being formed from trauma. Aaaaand it's got us annoyed to the point where we decided to write an essay about this. Mox has helped me (Faye) come up with a lot of this, so credit to her.

Our claim

Our claim is that accusing endogenic systems of being ableist by their mere existence is in fact ableism (or at the very least, fails as an argument and probably utilizes ableist assumptions). To make that claim, I'm going to need a straw man. Foxy, do you care to take the role?

I'm at the very least a stick man. Possibly brick. -Foxy

That a yes?

Duh. We rehearsed this whole bit all day at work.

SHHHH, you aren't supposed to tell them this isn't off the cuff and like, edited and stuff.

*rolls eyes*

Anyways, let's get started.

Claiming to have a disorder

Endogenic "systems" are ableist because they're pretending to have a disorder. A serious disorder that only results from trauma.

So this is an interesting one. You see, most endogenic systems we've come across don't generally claim to have DID/OSDD. But of course, that part is generally speaking ignored and the accusation is reiterated.

Here's the thing that takes some nuance though: even if DID/OSDD is caused exclusively by trauma, that doesn't stop an endogenic system from having it. We will for the moment ignore that dissociative disorders are placed next to the trauma disorders to reflect their close relationship (American Psychiatric Association, 2013, p. 291), and that none of them have trauma requirements (American Psychiatric Association, 2013, p. 291-307). I'm willing to believe that the kind of dissociation required to achieve memory barriers found in DID is caused by trauma, and that OSDD-1 (without amnesia) may likewise require trauma to cause distress (indeed, our collective distress is a byproduct of our different trauma responses).

But they have a trauma disorder. How are they supposed to have a trauma disorder without trauma?!?!

Endogenic systems claim that they were not formed from trauma. They do not however claim that they have no trauma. It actually seems pretty reasonable to expect a brain that is running a system of consciousnesses will react to overwhelming circumstances by increasing the severity of the pre-existing separations. When systems go through traumatic events, it makes sense that they would use the tools available to protect themselves. If you have a system prior to the trauma, then boom, you're endogenic (if you choose to label that way).

So endogenic systems have all rights to claim the disorder. Or they're not claiming a disorder at all. It's not ableist to claim an experience (plurality) that's also experienced by those with a disorder (DID/OSDD). No one is ableist for stimming when that's included in the diagnostic criteria of autism.

The Only Real(TM)(C)(R) Systems are DID/OSDD

No, the only way to be a system is if you have DID/OSDD though.

Why is that though? Criterion C of DID (American Psychiatric Association, 2013, p. 292), the first sentence of OSDD (American Psychiatric Association, 2013, p. 306), and the last essential feature of DID in the ICD-11 (ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics, 2022, "Essential Features" section) are all "distress" criteria. I.e. the thing that takes all symptoms together and makes it a disorder. Hell, the ICD-11 has a section that clearly states "The presence of two or more distinct personality states does not always indicate the presence of a mental disorder." (ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics, 2022, "Boundaries with Normality (Threshold)" section). Credit to The Lunastus Collective for finding and sharing the ICD-11 info (The Lunastus Collective, 2022).

Seriously, DID/OSDD are the only ways to be a system. Believing that you have multiple people in your head isn't normal!

There it is. That's the underlying assumption I think a lot of people seem to be making.

I'm so good at being a straw man. ;)

Eh, you and I both know that we've heard people make this claim. That you can't have a healthy mind (or at the very least a 'normal' one) if it's got a few people in it. Typically integration of the personality occurs in childhood, and infants begin the world with separate emotional self-states (Nijenhuis et al., 2004, "A Developmental Perspective of Dissociation" section). And so any deviance from typicality is a disorder yes?

Yeah, children don't get the normal integration of personality because of trauma.

You're using that word 'normal' though. That's a bit of a problem. You see, it's pretty ableist to label anything outside of the bounds of "normal" as a disorder. Hell, your beliefs (the actual Foxy, not the strawman bit she's doing) about how you got into our head would be considered delusions by most sysmeds, but tweak it ever so slightly to match up with a wider culturally accepted "normal" belief, and all of a sudden it's simply your spiritual beliefs right?

Hell, it reminds me of the discourse around trans people. We're considered to be "mentally ill" because our gender doesn't match up with society's expectations based upon our apparent biology. Worse still for us non-binary folk, as we're further talking about something weird when we talk about gender (and of course, further afield are xenogenders, of which none of us are, but fully support). Every step away from "normal" can be labeled more and more of a "mental illness" when those identities are simply a matter of self image. Of internal experience. Of qualia.

If any of those were to be termed as mental illnesses, it's pretty easy to see how ableist that is (as well as transphobic). Calling something a mental disorder just because it's different from the norm is ableist.

But DID/OSDD are disorders.

And we're going to go in a circle if your next point is that DID/OSDD are the only kinds of systems. And again, most endogenic systems we've met have specifically clarified that they do not have DID or OSDD. They merely claim that they are plural without having been formed from trauma.

They Just Don't Know their Trauma

Listen, I'm not even against endos. I just think that they're spreading misinformation by claiming not to have been formed from trauma. Just because they don't know their trauma, doesn't mean that they can go around claiming to be a system without trauma.

Again, that's ignoring the fact that many endogenic systems do know their own trauma. But now you're saying that a system (that you believe has a mental disorder) is not allowed to express their own life experiences?

Well yeah. They have a disorder that hides trauma. Therefore they wouldn't know if they had trauma because the disorder is doing its job.

So, because you think that a person is mentally ill, they can't be an expert on their own life? You do realize that's ableist as fuck right? To take away the autonomy of a person(s) in their ability to self relate and advocate because you hold that they have a mental disorder? That's how a metric fuck ton of psychiatric abuse occurs.

Furthermore this is an abuse tactic known as 'gaslighting' if you didn't know (Logsdon-Breakstone, 2012). You're telling people with (what you think is) a mental health disability that they can't be trusted with their own lives; that they can't possibly know themselves better than you.

And of course this is all ignoring the fact that there are systems with zero signs of trauma. It doesn't make a great deal of sense to tell a system who doesn't lose time, have amnesia, lose control of their thoughts or actions, have flashbacks, get hypervigilant, or have an exaggerated fear response, that in spite of none of those signs, they must secretly have trauma.

They're Just Faking It

Well if they don't have all of those symptoms, then they're just faking it.

And now we get to my favorite bit of ableism. This can go one of two ways honestly. First and foremost, people have been denied healthcare, resources, and even simple safety because others claim that their experiences are a lie; that they don't "look disabled" enough. Know that whatever outward sign of plurality you hold up as a requirement for plurality, you will exclude those with the disorder, including those that are straight up diagnosed (not to say that self-diagnosis is in any way shape or form invalid or lesser, but if an officially certified as capable of certifying someone officially "multiple" did it, then that should be at least enough for you).

Hey hey hey, I'm not saying that they're lying. I'm saying that they're mistaking their symptoms for plurality.

Aaaand that's' the other way.

Almost like we rehearsed this conversation before typing it up. ;)

Shhhh. Anyways, yeah, that's the other way it seems to be going. More gaslighting. If you're attempting to tell an ostensibly crazy person that they are mistaken about their experiences, you're doing textbook gaslighting. Which is ableist as fuck.

Conclusion

Overall, I think that anyone who wants to accuse endogenic systems of being ableist needs to stop for a moment and really think about what they're doing. Are they misunderstanding what the endogenic system is trying to communicate? Are they presuming that plurality itself is a disorder, and if so why? Are they just trying to gaslight people? Do they presume that atypical minds are incapable of deciding for themselves how they view themselves?

I may have stretched the use of ableism here, but I think it's still applicable. The attacks we've seen on endogenic systems so often seem to be built upon either the idea that plurality itself is a mental disorder, because having more than one person in one's head is "crazy." Or they are gaslighty attempts at weaponizing mental health disabilities against someone. In either case, fucking not cool.

-Faye of the Olivia Set

Citations

American Psychiatric Association. (2013). Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition: DSM-5 (5th ed.). American Psychiatric Publishing.

ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics. (2022, February). ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics. Retrieved February 25, 2022, from https://icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en#/http%3a%2f%2fid.who.int%2ficd%2fentity%2f1829103493

The Lunastus Collective, T. L. C. [@thelunastusco]. (2022, February 24). TLC 🔞 ominous finger snapping on [Tweet]. Twitter. https://twitter.com/thelunastusco/status/1496742218954018818?s=20&t=flSHQkxLfx1w2hDWDq7PmA

Nijenhuis, E. R. S., van der Hart, O., & Steele, K. (2004). Trauma Information Pages, Articles: Ellert Nijenhuis, et al (2004). Trauma Information Pages, Articles Ellert Nijenhuis, et al (2004). Retrieved February 25, 2022, from http://www.trauma-pages.com/a/nijenhuis-2004.php

Logsdon-Breakstone, S. (2012, February 16). Cosmo, Gaslighting, and How We See “Crazy” – Persephone Magazine. Cosmo, Gaslighting, and How We See “Crazy” – Persephone Magazine. Retrieved February 25, 2022, from https://persephonemagazine.com/2012/02/cosmo-gaslighting-and-how-we-see-crazy/